Automatic Regen too often

[k72nova]

I know this has been beat to death but I can’t find a good answer to this other than “drive it harder”. I have a 2022 Ram 2500 with a Cummins (not high output) at roughly 8500 miles I got the regen too often code and my mileage dropped from roughly 17 average to 14, took it to the dealer and they said I need to drive it harder. At this point my towing miles were at 2,000 miles so I’m towing 9k lbs 25% of the time. I know that’s not a lot.

At 9,00 miles (500 miles later) my mpg is down to 12.6 and I get another regents too often code. Back to the dealer and they tell me ”you need to drive it harder” they do the manual regen and send me on my way.

Now I start tracking my auto regen from the dpf screen, I leave the dealer still in auto regen, put 363 miles on the truck at highway speeds up and down canyons, auto regen finally shuts off…. For 22 miles, truck goes back into auto regen, I have 263 miles since then and the truck is still in auto regen. That 263 miles is me flooring it from every stop light and averaging roughly 90mph on the Highway, hitting 102 at times which apparently is the top speed for the truck. Around 150 miles into this regen I hooked a 4k lbs trailer to the truck and started just driving around with that trailer connected to try and get it out of regen. Mileage is still at 12.8ish.

Called the dealer last night and they said all they can do is put it in manual regen in the parking lot. They tell me they have one other person with this problem and that it’s my driving habits. At this point I’m calling BS, I have about 20 diesel trucks in my parking lot at work, most these guys live within 20 miles of this place and pretty much all of them still have brand new hitches on their trucks, all of them that I talk to either tow smaller trailers than I do, or less often or not at all. I’m having a hard time believing it’s my driving habits when 25% of my miles are towing and only one other customer has this problem. Has anyone else found a fix for this? Thanks!

 

[flan]

Seems like the 22’s are known for this. One would figure this would be a problem from a new tier emission requirement, not one from several years in. What changed in 22 with emission tuning that they could if screwed up so bad? Or was it a dpf/doc supplier failure? Hopefully they come out with a fix quick.

 

[John Jensen]

Terrible! It's not an unusual problem.
Any legitimate dealer would know it's not your driving habits, they would know there is a problem.
I suggest you find another dealer or encourage your dealer to check with Ram or escalate via Ram Cares.

 

[MtnRider]

If they are going to use the "driving habits" excuse, ask them to point out in the owner's manual where it says you need to drive it a certain way.......

BS excuse.

.

 

[techman]

Find another dealer ASAP. Your truck is clearly broken and it is not driver error.

 

[k72nova]

Terrible! It's not an unusual problem.
Any legitimate dealer would know it's not your driving habits, they would know there is a problem.
I suggest you find another dealer or encourage your dealer to check with Ram or escalate via Ram Cares.

Good call with Ram Cares, I submitted a ticket with them to see what they can do for me. My next appointment with the dealer is next Friday, I’m curious what they say this time after I present data backing up my claims but I have a feeling it’s not going to make much of a difference. If that’s the case and I haven’t heard back from Ram Cares then I’ll be off to a different dealership.

 

[mbarber84]

“Drive it harder” is never the fix for this issue, and in many ways can actually increase the problem. “Flooring it from every stop light” is definitely not helping, but might actually be contributing to increased soot-loading. These trucks need to see moderate to heavy loading for long durations in order for passive regeneration to take place. When active regeneration is occurring, the fuel being pumped into the exhaust system is used to increase the temp in the DPF to clean the soot out. In either case, constant sustained reasonable RPMs is what is best. Regeneration, wether active or passive, is all about temperature, time, and engine efficiency. Wildly varying engine rpm, demanding excessive fuel for “flooring it” and other attempts to “drive it hard” really don’t contribute to helping your situation. That’s lousy advice from a dealership and a classic example of how misinformed / uninformed some of these dealerships are.

There’s a method for diagnosing this problem and they’re clearly not following it. I’m sure they scanned the truck for DTCs. What codes were present? Only P2459? Is the truck currently updated with the latest software flashes / program payloads / TSB’s etc?

Air filter is step one. If you’re running a stock intake, you need the correct air filter in the box. Mopar 53034051AB or Fleetguard AF27684. If you have that, move on. If not, change that first.

Charge air leaks and exhaust leaks. Any sign of a boost leak on the engine? Clamps, hoses, tubes, gasketed surfaces, and the intercooler itself need to be checked. Exhaust system leaks can also cause this issue.

Fuel system issues can cause this problem also. Are you running good quality fuel filters and changing them regularly as needed / recommended? Any codes in the pcm about fuel delivery issues? Any sign of fuel in the engine oil? Leaky injectors can cause issues with the emissions system.

Turbocharger issues. Any sign of a low boost scenerio? Any codes about turbocharger not functioning as intended?

Did they scan the truck to see what the estimated soot load is in the DPF when you brought it in? Did they perform a stationary regeneration to see if it would clean itself out? What was the estimated soot load after a successful parked regeneration? Are you getting errant readings from the DPF differential pressure sensor? Are the sensors clean? Any sign of a visible obstruction in the DOC / DPF?

Seems like some dealers see P2459 and either like to blame it on the customer, or make up excuses and run away from the work. It is not an easy one to diagnose due to the complexity of the entire system and all the different variables that can cause or be contributing factors to the regeneration frequency issue. In any event, the dealer you’re currently using doesn’t seem to either want to handle the problem for you, or they have a serious lack of understanding of how these systems function and must be diagnosed.

“Drive it harder” is almost never the answer.

The emissions intervention strategies on these trucks are designed in such a way as to make sure the DPF gets cleaned out, no matter how the truck is used….provided everything is functioning as intended. That’s not to say it’s perfect, as there are many things a user can do to aggravate emissions issues (excessive idling, short-tripping, etc.) but generally speaking if you’re even moderately “using” the truck, you shouldn’t have any issues. I’ve owned several stock emissions Cummins trucks as daily drivers and have logged well over 100k in mileage with zero emissions related issues. (One faulty def injector on my current 2022 that failed within the first few thousand miles).

This problem is extremely common on 2022’s and now 2023’s it seems.

 

[tchur1]

Air filter is step one. If you’re running a stock intake, you need the correct air filter in the box. Mopar 53034051AB or Fleetguard AF27684. If you have that, move on. If not, change that first.

Air filter was the first thing that came to mind for me as well. FWIW im at 20k miles on my truck and have noticed my truck regening more frequently and the DPF gauge actually showing some load vs previously never moving off 0. Check that first.

 

[k72nova]

“Drive it harder” is never the fix for this issue, and in many ways can actually increase the problem. “Flooring it from every stop light” is definitely not helping, but might actually be contributing to increased soot-loading. These trucks need to see moderate to heavy loading for long durations in order for passive regeneration to take place. When active regeneration is occurring, the fuel being pumped into the exhaust system is used to increase the temp in the DPF to clean the soot out. In either case, constant sustained reasonable RPMs is what is best. Regeneration, wether active or passive, is all about temperature, time, and engine efficiency. Wildly varying engine rpm, demanding excessive fuel for “flooring it” and other attempts to “drive it hard” really don’t contribute to helping your situation. That’s lousy advice from a dealership and a classic example of how misinformed / uninformed some of these dealerships are.

There’s a method for diagnosing this problem and they’re clearly not following it…

Wow that’s a lot of great info, thanks!
The only code I’ve had is P2459, the first time they just did a manual regen and sent me on my way. The second time same code, they did a manual regen and drove it for roughly 25 miles, they also checked my air filter which looked clean in their opinion and did a software update to the ecu.

Knowing all this now I’ll have some questions for them next week when I drop it off again to find out what exactly they did to troubleshoot.

 

[k72nova]

I had to delay the drop-off of my truck until the other day but I just picked my truck up this morning and although I asked them about inspecting the whole intake, exhaust, and fuel system for leaks, it sounds like all they did was inspect the DEF system and air filter. The truck wasn't in auto regen when I picked it up (the gauge read about 35%) but I jumped right on the freeway at 85 when I picked it up and it was in auto regen within 3 miles. I called Ramcares and they told me to take the truck back to the dealer and that they would work with the dealer on fixing the issue. The prinotut I got from the dealer when I picked it up reads...


"I check and found dtc P0421-00-CATALYST 1 EFFECIENCY BELOW THRESHOLD BANK 1. I checked and found the there is a PCM sofware update available this update will be performed on line C with the recall (Y43). I checked and printed out the vehicle duty cycle report and found that the vehicle is still being operated in light load conditions this is not allowing the after-treatment system to complete the regenerations cycles and can cause damage over time. I left a printout of the duty cycle report in the vehicle. the customer needs to be made aware that if they continue to operate the vehicle in this manner after-treatment damage may occur. I removed and inspected the engine aitr filter and found that the air filter is the updated style without the glue strips. the air filter is slightly dirty but is not restricted at this time. I inspected the def system and found no leaks or damage at this time. the def system is full and no other dtc's are reported at this time."


This is frustrating, they talk about light load conditions but in the roughly 1,500 miles since I last had it in the dealer for this I've driven almost exclusively on the freeway usually around 85 MPH and had roughly 300 miles on the freeway with an aprox. 9,000 lb trailer behind it. I can't get a straight answer out of them as to how long I should have to drive at highway speeds with or without a trailer to come out of auto regen.



Below is a breakdown of the miles and driving since the dealer last saw it of when the truck was in and out of auto regen, the most miles out of auto regen were 31. Every time it WAS NOT in auto regen was in a situation where I turned the truck on and the DPF filter happened to be at zero, there was never a time while driving that the auto regen screen just went back to the filter gauge instead of the regen message.

EDIT: I realize that this chart below is misleading a bit, the "Since Last regen" column needs to change... the only time the truck with NOT in regen are 22, 31, and 18. the other miles are all regen time between the lower numbers.

Auto Regen	Miles	Since Last regen
On	9526	NA
Off	9889	363
On	9911	22
Off	10353	442
On	10384	31
Off	10660	276
On	10678	18

You can see below what it looks like when I'm driving highway speeds watching the gauge climb, it goes from roughly 35% at 10,375 miles to ~45% at 10,381, back into regen at 10,384.


I don't know that I'm necessarily looking for anything here as I already have some great info from this community and now have a ticket in with Ramcares but any feedback is welcome. As of now this is almost just another place for me to document what is going on.

 

[mbarber84]

Blaming it on Light load conditions is a cop-out. The truck should be set up so that it can maintain itself under any normal operating circumstances.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but nowhere in the operators manual does it say the truck has to be hooked to a trailer or loaded 100% of the time.

They have a problem and they know it.

 

[mbarber84]

Start getting your info together.
I’ll make an official thread when it’s ready.

 

[k72nova]

Small update, I called Ram Cares and they told me to drop the truck back off at the dealer so I did that this morning. When trying to plead my case to the dealer and reiterating that after 300 miles with 9,000 lbs behind the truck it still didn’t turn off, they said “without a check engine light, there’s nothing we can do.” I told them Ram Cares told me to drop the truck off with them and that they’d be in contact to walk them through how to fix it.

What I wanted to say was, if your tech can’t figure out what’s wrong with a truck without the computer telling them exactly what to do then what business do they have telling me how to drive my truck in order to fix it. But I’m not quite there yet.

 

[mbarber84]

167 miles since my last regen.
Won’t be long at it’s going to start again.

 

[Firebird]

I drove 180 miles pulling 10,000 pounds Thursday. It was in regen for a full 45 miles shortly after departure. Unhooked and drove a little on Friday, then Saturday morning, it went into regen again! I didn't have 50 miles on it! Pulled the same weight back today, so I'm going to schedule an appointment tomorrow with the dealer

 

[kanigie]

Small update, I called Ram Cares and they told me to drop the truck back off at the dealer so I did that this morning. When trying to plead my case to the dealer and reiterating that after 300 miles with 9,000 lbs behind the truck it still didn’t turn off, they said “without a check engine light, there’s nothing we can do.” I told them Ram Cares told me to drop the truck off with them and that they’d be in contact to walk them through how to fix it.

What I wanted to say was, if your tech can’t figure out what’s wrong with a truck without the computer telling them exactly what to do then what business do they have telling me how to drive my truck in order to fix it. But I’m not quite there yet.

Please keep us updated. I'm waiting for first dealer appointment next month. Our situation with regen frequency and miles needed to complete are basically identical. Maybe only difference is my truck was purchased with excessive idling hours. 2022 2500 CTD 15k with 651 idle hours, 2,100 total. Been getting worse but last regen took 257 miles to complete then went right back in after 44 miles.

After truck threw the P2459 code, regens are getting longer. Wonder if this is the truck way to try and clean DPF more thoroughly?

 

[k72nova]

Please keep us updated. I'm waiting for first dealer appointment next month. Our situation with regen frequency and miles needed to complete are basically identical. Maybe only difference is my truck was purchased with excessive idling hours. 2022 2500 CTD 15k with 651 idle hours, 2,100 total. Been getting worse but last regen took 257 miles to complete then went right back in after 44 miles.

After truck threw the P2459 code, regens are getting longer. Wonder if this is the truck way to try and clean DPF more thoroughly?

Not too much to update as of now but I’ll keep this updated as more happens.

My last post I’d mentioned dropping the truck back off last Tuesday, on Friday I asked if there was an update and was told that the shop foreman started a star case with Chrysler. They had been working on it but the foreman is out of town until the end of this week so they said I could come pick the truck up and bring it home to drive it until they were back so I picked the truck up. The dealer gave me the info on what they’ve tried so far with Chrysler which was to replace the MAF and Air Filter, they also printed out some of the conversation they’ve had with Chrysler. One of the messages from the dealer mentions that dealer is getting a lot of these with the same codes I’ve been getting (P2560) the dealer believes it’s a software issue.

I also requested that when the shop foreman gets back if they can go for a ride along with me so they can walk me through anything wrong with how they see me driving the truck. I figure this will give me an opportunity to talk to the actual technician about some things about the truck and show them that no longer how long it’s driven the regen never stops.

As for now I’ve been driving the truck since Friday and other than getting from my house and destination it’s all been freeway driving, roughly 40 mile round trip so not big trips but still in automatic regen.

On a side note I’m at roughly 25% life left on my fuel filters so I’m debating on if I should change those right now or wait till this star case is over. I’ve also been reading that a lot of people seem to really like using HotShot’s Secred EDT with every fuel up. I haven’t been doing anything like that but might give it a shot.

 

[Jnrcarson]

Interested in this thread as I’ve noticed my truck exhaust has had that def smell lately. It’s not my daily driver and only has 8000 miles on it. It’s my tow rig so at least 75% of those miles are either towing my 5er or my boat. Either way it gets used. Not much flat towing in Idaho. Dealer has me on the wait list for the DPF sensor recall. Parts on back order. Have never gotten a regen notice or anything whine driving the truck and the DPF gauge has never moved off of zero. Guessing the recall will fix that ???

 

[mbarber84]

Interested in this thread as I’ve noticed my truck exhaust has had that def smell lately. It’s not my daily driver and only has 8000 miles on it. It’s my tow rig so at least 75% of those miles are either towing my 5er or my boat. Either way it gets used. Not much flat towing in Idaho. Dealer has me on the wait list for the DPF sensor recall. Parts on back order. Have never gotten a regen notice or anything whine driving the truck and the DPF gauge has never moved off of zero. Guessing the recall will fix that ???

If all you’re doing with it is towing, it’ll likely keep the DPF clean through passive regeneration, which then means you’ll only see active regeneration cycles based on the 24 hour engine operation timer. If you’re on the interstate when an active regeneration cycle starts it can be easy to miss. They only last about 20 minutes and there’s no notice unless you happen to scroll to the DPF gauge on the EVIC, if there during an active regen, you’ll see a message indicating the cycle is in progress. Otherwise you won’t get any pop up notifications unless the system has an issue that needs your immediate attention.

 

[Jnrcarson]

If all you’re doing with it is towing, it’ll likely keep the DPF clean through passive regeneration, which then means you’ll only see active regeneration cycles based on the 24 hour engine operation timer. If you’re on the interstate when an active regeneration cycle starts it can be easy to miss. They only last about 20 minutes and there’s no notice unless you happen to scroll to the DPF gauge on the EVIC, if there during an active regen, you’ll see a message indicating the cycle is in progress. Otherwise you won’t get any pop up notifications unless the system has an issue that needs your immediate attention.

Noted. Thank you.